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In episode 8 of Techie & the Biz, Samsung Sales Engineering Director HyunJun Jung joins Max and Erica to discuss the evolution of endpoint protection and how Samsung has prioritized security for the mobile workforce against a wide range of threats. Watch more episodes from the series below or subscribe to the audio podcast.
This is Techie and the Biz, a podcast to explain technology. Today we’re excited to be joined by one of the leading experts in mobile security from a brand you all know and love. From smart appliances to your favorite smartphones. Please welcome my go-to technologist and solution guru HJ from Samsung Engineering. Welcome, HJ. Thanks, Max. Happy to be here.
Can I, can I put in a real quick plug because I, I, uh, techie and the biz, I, I watched a, a few of your, your videos are, they’re quite, uh, in depth, but like everyone says, don’t forget to like, share and subscribe and smash that alert. That’s great. We love it. Yes. That’s awesome. Thank you. Can, can we use that sound bite and every time we shoot one of these? I know. I, I love, I, I, I wanted the opportunity to be able to do that. I mean, I’ve been waiting for this moment for like two weeks now, so like, this has been, thank you. That’s awesome. Thanks for having me.
To start us off, can you give us a little background on how you got started in this industry and what led you to work in mobile technology at Samsung Engineering? So it’s, it’s quite interesting. Uh, I, I started off as, as a, uh, tester for, for websites. I mean, this is going back to the.com days, and, and so it’s been really exciting. It, it sort of like landed here at Samsung. I did, you know, federal consulting. So I have a pretty, pretty well in-depth background in, in terms of the, you know, security and what it takes. And I, I have a few stories to share about, about that in the up upcoming, you know, my upbringing there. And so, uh, you know, I went into government consulting and then I was like, you know what, this mobile thing seems pretty interesting, so let, let me try that out. And, you know, you know, things, things shifted and, and I was like, okay, so let, let me try that out. And I landed at Samsung because one I loved, loved the products. I was using it on a daily basis, but then they started bringing out this NOx thing. And so I was really curious about that. And, uh, so, so I went from, from my government consulting, my development background and, and all the way into where I am today at Samsung. That’s great. So I wanted to share a story. I actually just came back from Las Vegas and experienced the impact of the recent cybersecurity hack that’s been all over the news. Uh, from the moment that I entered my hotel room, I actually noticed the change or the impact of the hack. For example, the blinds in my room couldn’t open since they worked off of a tablet system that was down. Um, and on the casino floor, funny enough, uh, I noticed the progressive jackpot slot machines like Wheel of Fortune, which is Erica’s favorite, by the way, was offline. Oh, not Wheel of Fortune. That’s cra No Wheel of Fortune. Yeah. No sunshine, No nothing. Was the, with roulette tables running, Yes, roulette was a go. Uh, and I had some good luck there. But to bring us back on topic, this really highlighted the importance of security and especially relating to mobile devices. In fact, I think a simple password reset request to the it help desk was how hackers gain access to all of MGM system in Vegas. So, so how does Samsung protect the end user from some of the most common hacks, like weak or reused passwords? Yeah, so it’s interesting, uh, uh, uh, previously Zach, we had on, on the podcast we talked about the weakest link, and it’s always the weakest link that gets you in trouble. But the same time, you have to think about the balance between security protocol and the risk that you’re willing to take versus, uh, you know, being able to innovate. And it’s a really fine line and it’s, it’s hard to, it’s understand that unless you’re actually doing the implementation and the coding and to be able to, you meet deadlines and things like that, these, these reuse passwords, these weak passwords that people are using it. If you look at the charts like, uh, 11 character with special characters with, you know, uppercase, lowercase, that can be cracked in three years, just three years time. So that’s 11. That’s just 11, right? Um, how many people have used password or 1, 2, 3, 4? Where Do we everybody at some point, I guess, yeah, Yeah. Or something that’s really common to you that that’s easy to remember. But if you look at it, back in the day when, when the.com was, was sort of growing up, we didn’t have all of these different sites to actually create a user identity on. It was very simple. It was primarily just email, right? And maybe your instant messenger count, right? And so it was very, very sort of localized. But as the internet grew and as, as you started to see all these new technologies and these great things like Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat and all that, you, it’s like these plethora of, of applications, it started getting really hard. And so what people started to do is they started to reuse those pa same passwords because it was easy. Uh, it, people in humans are, are creatures of habit. So it’s, let me just reuse that one because I know it’s secure. So that sort of left the door open for, again, hackers and to get a treasure trove of, okay, if I crack one, I just won that jackpot. Right? And, and so, so what does Samsung do in, in terms of, of being able to, uh, you know, limit that? Well, there’s a few things. So, so Max that, have you ever connected to that free public wifi that was inside of the, the casino? Like, well, well, first rule, don’t connect to that during Defcon. That’s rule number one, right? The other thing is protect yourself. And so, so there’s, you know, how many times have you seen like an ad for like express VPN on, on a YouTube video? Okay, there’s, there’s reasons for it. Well, Samsung has created a, a way better way to help protect you on those, those unsecured wifi. And so we, we provide A-V-P-N-A free VPN up to one gigabyte a month just because we understand that users need that protection, but they, but they need to know where to go find it. And, and so I think that’s, that’s the hard part, is to try to educate and lead people to knowing that, okay, you know, you should be protecting yourself, encrypting all your data regardless of whether you think it’s safe or not, um, so that you’re not compromised in any way. Okay. So, so definitely network based security. What about features like, uh, using biometrics versus using the actual password? That’s something that could be sniffed on an unsecured network. Yeah, so biometrics is, was, was an interesting, uh, addition over to, to our platform and amongst the others that are out in the, the market space.
So, so you, you know, that you have certain requirements about a special character about uppercase and things like that.
Um, think of things that, that you can use and, and just use a special character as the space.
So, so, and Forand, for instance, if you want to join up multiple, uh, uh, a length, like, you know, the quick Brown Fox, for instance, right? Every space could be a special character. It could be the same special character, but it’s just a special character. It just needs to be long enough, right? And have just the uppercase and lowercase, right. It just needs to be long enough.
So, um, my work computer, I have a 15 character password minimum. Okay, thank You. Yeah. Like me, my password manager has 30. Wow. Okay.
So, so the thing is, but, but it’s all about what you can remember as a, as a pattern. So, um, you know, some people use like, something that, that will remind you of the website that you’re on or the app that you’re using, right? That could be a par, a partial part of the key plus a password, um, sort of, uh, pattern that you’re using.
Um, so like for instance, like you could use colors, uh, and then, but, but how you sort of change, change that out is that I usually just delineate by using the special characters. Um, that way I don’t have to actually replace like a, like an a for, for like an at sign for instance. ’cause, ’cause that can get, ’cause like, you might not remember what you thought of at the time, but if you use it within like your spaces, then, then it makes it a lot easier to remember. Um, and so, so yeah. But once, once I find out that that’s been compromised, then, then what ended up happening is then I’ll have to come up with a new way to think about it. The, the way I look at it is that you just need to be one step ahead of, of the, the hackers. What’s gonna be interesting is that once AI comes into the picture, it’s gonna be really hard, uh, to come up with, with a meaningful password that the AI engines won’t come up with. And that’s why the industry is moving from passwords to pass keys, um, with biometrics, right? And that’s, that’s where we’re going with technology. Wow, that’s Interesting. That, yeah, that definitely makes sense.
I have to change my password at MetTel every three months. So I go through this exercise with all the requirements every three months, and yes, three months, there has to be a pattern. Otherwise there’s no way I’m gonna remember any of it. So three months, that’s, you’re, you’re, you’re, that’s too easy. I have to pay, we have to change ours every 30 days. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah. That there’s no way I’m gonna remember that if I had to do it every 30 days. You Know, it’s so crazy. I always think like when we were younger, we had to know our social security number. That was the big thing. And if you ask anyone under the age of 30, they probably have to look, look it up. I don’t think most college students can just Nope. Rattle off their social security number. And then we had to add in like our ATM code maybe, right? Yeah. Like our, and that was like it, and that, you know, maybe our best friend’s phone numbers. But now it’s like, there’s just so much. It’s always, so this is a good system to think of a pattern because there’s just so much. Yeah. Even if you put it in a system or you write it down, there’s just always so many things to remember.
Do, do, you know, in 1999, I had access to pretty much anyone that had a student loan, their complete information, their name, their address, their loan amount, their social security number, and it was not encrypted. Wow. So, wow. They’ve come a long way in security. Yeah. Yeah. You, you had a lot of friends back then would call you up and be like, Hey, can you do me a solid and just change the balance due on that loan? Luckily it was only a view only, but I, but I actually saw my parents, uh, yeah. So I had a plus loan and I saw my parents’ information in there. Like literally it was like, it was, wow. It was, it was quite intense. Uh, you know, and then one time I, I, uh, accidentally deleted all the data in production, So we had to recover. Is that, is that what we’re gonna call it? Accidentally? Yeah. Well, well, they gave me the, the root password. And so I, I, um, was trying to load in a test database, but I was in production instead. And I, I learned a lesson that, yeah, always change the background whenever you’re in production to like red then, you know, test stuff in green. So that, that was back when I was, I was doing quite a bit of programming, but these days I’m doing a lot more sales engineering. Oh my gosh, that’s a crazy story. I like that background color. Yeah. Don’t delete that one, Right? Basically, yeah. Warning. Yeah, for sure.
I never realized how at risk I was for constantly resetting my passwords. Yeah, that’s that. And in fact, that’s, that’s how, uh, sort of MGM was phished. Wow. Was was a password reset. Yeah. So, so what ended up happening was they, they got the two factor, and then once they got the two factor, then they can just say, forgot password. And they’re right in. What about malicious software embedded in an app that we all download to our devices? So that’s, that’s also another interesting point, right? Like, uh, Samsung’s approach, I’ll, I’ll give you sort of what, what Samsung does with this is that we look at the mobile device, and when you start bringing in biometrics, when you start bringing in those authenticator applications, it is a gold mine for that device for any malicious, the actor that’s out there. Okay? And so we take the approach of security first always, but we also want it to be in the background so you don’t notice it. It’s kind of like having a bodyguard that walks around with you that, that nobody notices. And, and how we do that is through a few mechanisms. So we have what’s known as NOx ball. There is within that, there is a secure processor, there’s secure memory, there’s a trust zone, there’s real-time kernel protection. And so these are really technical things, but let me sort of, you know, make it easier for you to digest. What, what the NOx fault really is doing is that if you have an application that’s running, it’s sort of, it’s gonna
be sandboxed so that only those processes and the execution time is locked down so that other applications can’t inject themselves into it to give you bad results or to give you an output that, that, uh, you know, you weren’t expecting. The secure memory part is that a lot of times application developers when they develop some of the memory can just linger out on the chips because it just cuts that tie to the point where, in, where it is in memory. And so secure memory sandboxes it so that once a session’s created, you do your processing, you save your memory, and that memory gets wiped out, right? So it’s, so it’s protecting you from, from an OSS perspective, because that’s, that’s the big, uh, thing that can sort of make, make it easier for hackers to get in, because that’s running on top that has high level privileges.
But what they’re really trying to do is they’re trying to get to that sensitive data that’s stored within that trust zone area. The things like biometrics, the things like your secure passwords, that’s what they’re after.
And so think about, think about it this way. Like if you walked into a bank, okay, and you have a safe in the middle, you have the employees that are working, you have individuals coming in to do standard banking transactions, but you have one bad actor that, that comes in there that wants to steal all that money, that’s that safe is NOx vault. Okay? And so that protects the contents, but you also have to worry about insider threats. So like employees who have access to that safe. And then you also have those external parties that also are, um, you know, sort of walking around and, and trying to get your data. So, so the, so we are looking at multiple different areas, attack vectors, and we’re trying to solve that through hardware based, uh, principles and, and, and techniques to keep that data safe.
So if your OSS gets compromised and your OSS then has access to the kernel, then your whole system is down. That’s what that real-time kernel protection’s for. It’s so that we are constantly monitoring just to make sure that if that kernel gets modified in any way, we will wipe that, we’ll wipe your device. That’s what NOx is there for, it’s in the background, you don’t see it, but when something happens, that’s when you’re really gonna be like, thank goodness I have NOx vault on my system.
I love that. As many people know, I travel quite a bit, and sometimes I do need to get on that free wifi network. Um, it’s interesting that you said earlier that, uh, Samsung offers the VPN access, but I was curious, we’re we’re often warned against using free wifi, and most people associate that with like the free wifi at the local coffee shop. But then we go to a hotel, we spend hundreds of dollars for a night, we get on the wifi and we feel completely protected. And your experience is, is that something that, uh, end users need to worry about when they’re on that hotel wifi network?
They do. Um, it, there’s a concept of wifi masquerading. So enterprise networks have a way to sniff out masqueraders that are out there. So if you see in certain cases, multiple instances, let’s, let’s use Starbucks as an example. If you have multiple Starbucks guest networks that are out there, that it could be that, uh, it’s part of a, you know, widely distributed network, or it could be someone who just brought up a hotspot and, and so if you connect to that hotspot, they have full access to your system unless you have, you know, built-in firewalls and things like that. Um, so, so you gotta be really careful in that sense, and that, that’s where VPN helps to encrypt a lot of that data because from your endpoint being the mobile device, connecting into a remote system, um, now I wouldn’t recommend, you know, checking your banking details while you’re in that free wifi. Uh, you know, like, you know, it’s, it’s what is your risk tolerance? Okay. So it’s like, okay, is Instagram like, you know, something I should access? Yep. Okay. I mean, it’s good, but you know, don’t, don’t, don’t be, you know, use, you know, accessing credit card information or banking data, you know, on free wifi, uh, you know, leave that at home, right? I mean, just use good security principles when you’re out and about.
I actually had an eye-opening experience at, uh, a conference I went to a few years back when someone, uh, everyone entered the room, the presenter was a cybersecurity specialist at everyone, you know, kind of go on the wifi. And within minutes he was showing us, he picked on someone in the room, he was showing us how he got into the person’s computer. He got on LinkedIn and he sent an invite to himself from that user. And he said, now, should I jump into the, the banking app that’s loaded on this machine as well? ’cause I could do that next. And it was, it was so eye-opening how quick it is once you’re on that bad network.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, look at it this way. Endpoints are, are one thing, but it, it’s, you need to break into a lot of ’em to get the data that you’re looking for. Where I think security is needs a higher level of focus is within the enterprise because of the way that there’s multiple interconnected systems that need to talk and send data back and forth. Um, similar to, to like those recent events about that phishing, right? It, it’s that they need to do a, a, you know, higher level focus to really lower their risk or lower the risk tolerance. I guess. Like, basically what I’m trying to say is you’re, you’re trying to make sure that you’re positioning yourself to mitigate those type of risks, but still be able to use the system. Because if you took the stance of, well, I’m just not gonna connect to the internet at all. Well, you, you’re not really gonna get very far. Right? Um, and so, so yeah, there’s CISOs have to do this really, really tight balancing act around, okay, what, what am I willing to open up so that, um, you know, we, we can provide a service that is also secure, um, but also giving end users the best user experience that they can get.
Phishing has become one of the largest techniques used by hackers. Yeah. We’re not talking about your hobby. HJ as a saltwater fisherman. No, max. This is fishing with a pH like the band fish. You, Okay. What is phishing and how does Samsung protect against phishing attacks?
Yeah, so, so Zach also brought up a, a, a good, good point. The other day he was talking about zero trust. Um, so, so we, we, we, as at Samsung, we, we, we, that is how we are dealing with, with how we protect individuals from phishing. Now, you know, uh, I, we can’t control what the end user is doing, but we can at least try to help filter out those, those type of, um, you know, actions. So a couple things that we do with Samsung NOx, uh, and is one, uh, we have domain filtering, which, which can be implemented. Uh, you know, instead of, you know, utilizing blacklists, you’re now utilizing whitelists, but you have, but you have to know where you’re gonna go. So it, it’s sort of like a reactive, uh, you know, type of security implementation. Um, you know, I think it beyond sort of like, like the hardware-based, you know, we, we have software controls that allow us to, uh, you know, better understand what people are doing, uh, to try to help protect them.
And we do that because we, we will take hardware devices are mobile devices, and we’ll connect them into what’s known as a mobile device management, uh, piece of software. Um, you know, that, that, that’s sort of like the gatekeeper of okay, let, I know that individuals, you know, you can’t necessarily control what they’re gonna do because a lot of times phishing, preys on emotion or praise on, on the, the fact that the urgency and or curiosity, the curiosity is what gets humans in trouble because they get text message that sounds like it’s legitimate. It came from somebody who you might know like, well, I trust that person, but do you really trust that person just to just send you any type of link and be like, oh, just click this. Um, you know, that’s, that’s what gets a lot of people in trouble. And that’s, that’s so what we do from a hardware side that, you know, we, we try to protect you by implementing those type of controls.
Well, is is it, is it annoying in, in certain cases? Absolutely. Because it’s like, well, why can’t they just give me access to this? And, and what happens? Is it, it’s, it’s there because we’re trying to protect you. So I shouldn’t click on that text that said, I just want a $50 Amazon gift card. Yeah, yeah. Or the, the uncle that wants to give you some lottery winnings. Yeah, please, please don’t.
Uh, today, uh, everyone refers to AI as the easy button to deal with all challenges, pretty much including security. Uh, is Samsung implementing AI in these security solutions to help improve hack detection and mediation? Yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s kind of interesting, uh, I’m gonna bring up NOx one more time because that’s, that’s what Samsung is doing. We’re putting all of our security in into NOx. And one of the, one of the ways that, that we are, um, sort of addressing machine learning, you know, artificial intelligence is essentially, um, securing down the, the, um, machine learning and their neural models. And so it, it’s a, it’s a two-way, um, uh, protection. One of them is, is, is because the learning models is critical, that, you know, you protect that. Because what can happen is you can have, you know, the, these, uh, um, nefarious individuals that want to change the way the output of that neuro model gives an answer back to an individual in, in a malicious way. And so you need to protect that. And so how do you protect that? Well, you need to first make sure that you’re encrypting, you know, that, that model, so that it can’t be broken into that. That’s one, that’s one thing. And the other thing is that, you know, you, you also, when you’re utilizing those, those language, the, the, the models on, on the, the device, you, you have to make sure that that session is secure. So think of NOx Vault again, because now, now the, the memory is in a session. It’s only used for that in that purpose, and then it’s destroyed at the end of it, and it goes back into its lock state. And, and you can in sort of verify that that’s happening through, through the use of a secure processor, secure memory, NOx vault. We, we have different way, we, we support many different formats. So if you’re familiar with like TensorFlow or TensorFlow Light, you know, PY Torch, there’s, uh, Onyx, we can support all those models and we, we encrypt it in a certain way where we, we make it generic enough for applications, you know, valid, you know, applications that you want access over to that model, uh, to gain access to it, and we’ll secure it down utilizing Samsung nos.
Hmm. That’s interesting. Do companies that already deploy VPNs or SS SE need to still be concerned with mobile device security? And what steps would you recommend companies take when deploying mobile devices to ensure strong mobile security? Yeah, so, so the, you know, the endpoints, there’s so many of ’em out there. Uh, you know, there’s, I don’t know how many screens I have in front of me right now, but I have a screen here. I have a screen in front of me. I have a screen, you know, like on my monitor. I mean, it’s, I, there’s so many different, you know, mobile devices that are, are in the landscape, and, and we’re only going to get more, uh, it is just a matter of, you know, time and deployment. But for, for ss, SE based, uh, you know, like sort of endpoints, you have to secure it down. So our approach is secure, manage, deploy, analyze, like those, those are our pillars. And so Samsung, you know, protects you from the moment to make sure that devices are owned by you, like from an enterprise space, that you can deploy them out easily. Okay? So take, take consumer devices and put them into the enterprise, manage them, meaning put restriction policies in, put in, uh, you know, like analytics in there to, to ensure that your end users okay, are protected. Because we might not necessarily be able to be on our a game with security every day because, you know, life happens. Um, and, and so, and we analyze afterwards so that we understand what’s going on in, in that space for those mobile devices and, and be able to make proactive changes versus reactive changes. I think that’s pretty realistic is anyone who says, you know, my solutions are always gonna work, they’re always gonna protect you. It’s, it’s a moving, it’s definitely a moving target. So that’s, uh, it’s, it’s refreshing to hear that that’s really the reality we all have to deal with every day.
So I wonder, what, what should we expect from Samsung in the near future from a security perspective, any new and exciting projects you’re not supposed to talk about? How, how did I know this, this question was gonna come up. Uh, uh, I can’t resist. I have to ask. Yeah. Uh, from a security perspective, we, we will always be innovating with security. We will always try to be on the forefront of it. Uh, we always try to be a step ahead, um, if we can. Uh, we need to do the anticipation, like our, our, our stance is that, um, with existing devices in the market space, we’re committed to supporting these devices with security maintenance releases. We have a minimum of four years on most of our devices. We’re even getting up to, um, five years on, uh, certain levels of, of enterprise class devices that we have
in market. Um, we continually upgrade, we’ll, we’ll upgrade from the OS perspective to, to really remove out older oss so that, um, you know, we have better protected additional functionality from a NOx perspective. We’re, we’re always trying to really, you know, push the envelope on, on making sure that devices are secure, um, for both consumers as well as the enterprise. I mean, that’s, that’s a, a key thing that, that we’re doing there. But like, but anything, you know, like I, I personally love Samsung devices now I’m skating around this a little bit, uh, given that, you know, we, we always have, you know, device launches, you know, usually twice a year. But I, uh, I can, I can’t give you, uh, any sort of insight as to what’s coming, but I know it’s gonna be new and exciting.
Your, your smile says it all. Yeah, That’s good. That’s something to look forward to for sure. All right. Well that brings us too game Time. So I love This part. I love this part. I’m ready To get to know you a little better.
We would like to play a game of this or that. So I will rapidly give you two options, and then you just choose the one that best describes you. Okay. Are you right? Okay. Do I have to wait for all of ’em or just, just go? Well, I’ll give you, I’ll just give you two and you choose, you go to the next one. Okay. All right. Perfect. I’m ready.
All right. Text or call? Text. Walk or run? Definitely run. Drive a car or fly a plane. Uh, fly a plane. ’cause I hope to become a private pilot at some point in time in my life. My life. Oh, really? Yes. That’s so awesome. Actually, you know, there’s a fun fact. When I first met Max, he was starting to get his pilot licenses. I was, and he was flying and getting hours in. And then I don’t know what happened. He’ll blame me, but I, yeah, I think you should go back one day. One day. I feel like you, you’re gonna have to start over. I’m, I’m, I’m gonna go right after this, in that case, but that’s really cool. Do you have hours already built up? No, because my wife will never fly in the plane that I fly. So, yeah, one day. Max has tried to convince me to do this with the planes that have the parachute. So he feels like if we’re going down, we’ll just hit the chute and then we’re like, glide in somewhere. I don’t know. This is probably why he hasn’t gone back. I had, I had a PowerPoint slide around that. It didn’t work though.
Alright. I’m sorry. Cash or credit? Uh, definitely credit only. ’cause I, I love the points. A day of fishing or a day of golf, Uh, fishing because Yep. I love being on the ocean. Cool. Dog or cat? I’m a dog guy. Uber or Lyft? Oh, now, now you’re putting it into me a spot. Definitely Uber. Yeah. Super strength or super speed? Super speed. Concert or movie, Uh, wait. Concert or movie? Oh, movie. Concert. That, that’s fine. Yep. Get over it or get even. Uh, can I say both? I like both. City or nature? Uh, definitely the city. Fix a car or fix a drink. Uh, I fix a car ’cause I, I’m a, a avid wrencher, so I love, love working. Oh, cool. Sunrise or Sunset? Uh, because I can’t go for sunrises. Sunsets. Football or soccer? Soccer or pool. The beach. Book or movie? Definitely a book. Netflix or Hulu? Uh, is there No, no. Definitely Netflix. Um, buy or borrow? Uh, definitely buy. TaskRabbit or Geek Squad. Ooh, uh, geek Squad. iPhone or Android? Uh, well, this is a Trick question. I mean, this is a trick question. Okay. Options. This, this, this one needs a little bit of context. Right. Okay. So definitely Android for me. While I do have, uh, my competitor devices, um, I just prefer, uh, being able to have a secure folder. And, and, uh, so because I have to manage my mom’s stuff who’s not very secure with passwords, and so, so I put that on my secure folder, so, so that, so there is a reason why I do that, but yeah, I prefer Andrew for sure. It sounds like he’s Geek Squad for his family. Yeah. Which means we have a lot in common. Yeah, same. For sure.
Instagram or Facebook? I, I’m an Insti person. Yep. Mac or PC? Uh, ooh. Um, uh, uh, I love them both. They, they, uh, uh, I I’m gonna say both because I love them. I love Isha has their own, you know, quirks and, and, uh, pluses and minuses. But I, but I do, like, I’m very sort of yeah. Agnostic when it comes to that. Okay. Have no wifi or have no cellular network, have no wifi. The TV show. The Deadliest Catch or Wicked Tuna. Oh my gosh. Uh, gosh. There I lo I watched both. How did you know? Um, uh, wicked Tuna, only because I’m from the Northeast and, and I love saying Wicked. It’s, but I, yeah, I lost it from my vocabulary. Is it isn’t, isn’t Wicked Tuna the one where they do like spearfishing versus Deadliest Catch? They have like the cages for catching crabs or something like that. Yeah. Deadliest Catch is all about the King Crabber LIOs, right? Wicked Tuna is all about catching blue Fin Tuna off of the coast of Massachusetts, like over in, you know, Jeffrey’s Ledge. I, I, I’m an avid fan because I love fishing, so that’s my, yeah, That’s cool. I actually, I’ve never seen Wicked Tuna, but I do love the name. Jesus saying, wicked is cool. Travel back in time or travel into the future. Travel back in time. Love and laughter, or wealth and wisdom, Love and laughter all day. Aw, that’s a nice answer. Well, thank you for talking to us today. Yeah, thank you. This was fun. Thank you. Oh, this was fun. Yeah. To learn more about Samsung Mobile Solutions and how they could be implemented in your enterprise, go to mettel.net or contact your MetTel sales representative.